My Skookum experience thus far

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I admit this is a bit of an exaggeration; I can see there are at least people looking at my posts, though unfortunately none of them seem to have answers to my questions.

Complaints and objectively funny gifs aside, I’m sure the Agog Labs guys are extremely busy with Verse, probably rushing to get that all together for the UE5 release in Q1 of 2022, and I’m sure that will be great when it arrives. To be honest I was looking forward to Verse even more than Lumen and Nanite and all that other cool stuff in the Early Access release.

In the meantime, though, I’m finding it a little difficult to avoid feeling discouraged from using SkookumScript given how dead this forum seems to be. It makes me question what kind of support to expect for SkookumScript and suspect that I might be better off just using blueprints and C++ until Verse is available, despite those being terrible options for scripting.

For now, I guess I’ll ask some less technical questions:
Is there a better place for me to ask my questions?
Is there a discord or something?
Should I just give up on the idea of generic programming in SkookumScript, even though the documentation hints at it being possible?
Should I just not use SkookumScript at all?

I suggest waiting on verse. Even if there is a sudden update for Skookum to run on a newer version of Unreal, the support will be lacking since the team is busy on verse.

Honestly, I’m not necessarily too concerned about the difference in which version of UE Skookum runs on atm. It’d be nice if Skookum supported the latest, but it’s not like I necessarily need every new UE feature; I could just stick with some version Skookum supports.

That being said, you’re still probably right; if I ran into any issues using Skookum, it’s hard to imagine I’d get any help considering what I’ve seen so far. While I think, after looking at Skookum for some weeks, that I have some understanding of how to use it properly, it’s probably not worth the risks involved; ultimately, as much as I think Skookum might be preferable to work with, Blueprints and C++ are superior to Skookum because of the tacit guarantee that they will work and the plethora of guides on how to use them in UE. Pretty sure the Skookum developers won’t disagree with me on that statement, mainly because they won’t even notice this post in the first place.

It would be nice to have a some idea when Verse will be available, I can only assume that might be when UE 5 releases, but who knows? No point in even fishing for information, given how quiet the developers have been thus far; Epic’s NDA must be truly terrifying.

This is what I would do.

  1. If Verse Preview is available early next year, I would wait.
  2. If Verse will not be part of UE5 initial launch, I would use SK.

The problem is that neither 1, 2 is not an option.
SK doesn’t work under UE5.
The dev won’t tell us to help us make decision for unknown reasons. It’s pretty pathetic situation for SK fans.

In hindsight, it would be much better if SK didn’t sell their soul to Epic.
SK was a very capable solution 3 years ago but nothing has been done since then, and we can only speculate.
We could have an almost perfect scripting solution if it wasn’t sold.
Oh well…

Having said that, Verse better be really good to offset the painful wait.

And I really like to have some answers from the dev to ease us the pain.
They showed it last year and I can’t understand why they won’t even talk about some basic facts.
If they can’t talk about it, please explain why so that we don’t continue to wait in agonies.

best wishes,

I find it hard to really blame the Skookum developers for their choice in joining Epic; I also doubt they are at liberty to tell us anything about Verse, so I can’t blame them for their silence there.

Regarding Skookum, I wish they’d say more but I figure they’re really busy, and realistically, it probably makes sense to expect Skookum to be replaced by Verse; it’s hard to imagine any reason to stick with Skookum if it’s a third-party option for Unreal that’s not being actively developed, when Verse will (presumably) be a first-party option that is being actively developed.

Instead of getting upset with the Skookum developers, I’d suggest going to Tim Sweeney’s or Epic’s Twitters and asking them questions until they’re answered, since they are the ones at liberty to say anything about Verse. I don’t know how much their silence thus far has been deliberate and how much has been due to lacking awareness of the interest in Verse or the position Skookum users are currently in, but they’re the right parties to ask about the future of scripting in the Unreal engine.

I can totally relate to your experience @lag :smile:. I mean you finally find this rockin’ technology and it seems you’ve stumbled on it 2 years too late :sob:.

We haven’t had a lot of new users around here for a while, so let me just say welcome and sorry for your posts being delinquent for so long, I usually get alerts and hop right over but I missed these.

At his point, there are no official SkookumScript Devs™ as everyone keeps mentioning. The original creators are off working on Verse. And honestly, like most employees who are keen to continue employment (during a pandemic no less), they’re probably not going to up and break an NDA just to give 5 people on these forums an insider look :rofl:.

:sk: was open-sourced, which was a tremendous gift to us and has been community-supported since the acquisition.

I gotta tell you folks, it has been really lonely being the only community member working on :sk: these last few years :pleading_face:, I could really use some help/motivation here. I have used :sk: every single work day for the last 3 years and I will continue using it as long as the benefits outweigh the risks.

I can understand how starting a new project with no knowledge of :sk: and a non-active forum would be worrisome. Without the ability to support myself these last few years I probably wouldn’t have stuck with it. But I’m familiar enough with the codebase to fix any issues that come up and am pretty motivated to continue on with :sk: for my own purposes.

I’d love to get a new marketplace release up, but need help coming up with an initialization workaround for people that aren’t running a custom engine.

@error454, I’m too feel very lonely using SK every day as well. I’m checking this forum, Epic forum, github and all every day to see if there is any news.
I’ve been doing that for the past 3 years and I’m getting really tired.

I’m eagerly waiting for days that we can talk about it freely.

Right now, I’m stuck in UE4 because of SK. Please let me ask you.
Did you get it to work for UE5?

Thanks.

I haven’t made any attempt at getting it working in UE5. I’m still on 4.27 for my primary contract. As for most upgrades, the challenges are typically the UHT phase.

Yeah, I ran into problems at UHT. It seems like UE5 has changed how UHT works and SK is not generating files.

@error454 No worries about not responding quickly, I just appreciate any responses at all. :slight_smile:

I also totally get the situation with the SkookumScript developers and their silence regarding the future and of course don’t want anyone to do something that will get them in trouble.

While there aren’t official SkookumScript developers, it does at least seem like the former SkookumScript developers stop by from time to time; or at least they did for a while after starting on Verse. Of course, asking the Verse developers for help on SkookumScript would be unreasonable, so we have to call them SkookumScript developers! :slight_smile:

It is good that they open-sourced SkookumScript. It would have been terrible for anyone that was invested in the language if they hadn’t; at least this way the community has some chance to resolve issues.

Blockquote
I can totally relate to your experience …
… I gotta tell you folks, it has been really lonely being the only community member working on :sk: these last few years :pleading_face:, I could really use some help/motivation here.

Honestly, having seen some of your comments on e.g. https://github.com/EpicSkookumScript/SkookumScript-Plugin/issues/47 earlier, I kind of imagined you’d feel that way even more than the rest of the users, though I get the impression feeling lonely is a common trait of SkookumScript users these days. :slightly_frowning_face:

I doubt many people have enough knowledge of SkookumScript and how it interfaces with the Unreal Engine to easily get involved, unfortunately; it’d be nice if I were mistaken and those that are able to would help a bit, though. It seems like a bit much to put this all on one guy; it kind of feels like if you stopped working on it, the language would die. :worried:

Yeah they do, and the intentions of wanting to help are there. They have families, kids and hobbies outside of their full-time jobs so understandably don’t engage much.

I’m happy to educate where I can, the full solution is somewhat complex, but it’s not so far out in the weeds anymore as Epic is using similar systems for their python integration. If someone were eager to iterate in some small area of the codebase, teaching them enough to iterate in that area would not be so difficult.

That might be true for a time, although single maintainer projects are quite common in the open-source world (not that that’s a good thing). The NTP project and a world of neglected NPM packages come to mind immediately :rofl:, especially that one time a repo owner gave a hacker ownership of a neglected repo: https://github.com/dominictarr/event-stream/issues/116.

I’m getting easily distracted here. I do want to maintain :sk:, I’ve been doing that behind the scenes for my own purposes for a while - I’d like to get back to public releases and some kind of roadmap. My personal opinion on Verse is that the wait time will be measured in years, so I see value in continuing with :sk:.

I’m happy to educate where I can

On one hand, Skookum’s implementation would be interesting to study and understanding how it integrates into the Unreal engine would be potentially useful if I wanted to add another language to it at some point; on the other hand, I have already been finding it difficult to find the time and energy just to do my job and some game dev along with it; I can’t see me getting involved in this right now, sadly.

My personal opinion on Verse is that the wait time will be measured in years, so I see value in continuing with :sk:.

You may be right about that; it would explain why Epic hasn’t said anything since demoing the technology almost a year ago. Then again, they did demo the technology almost a year ago…

Probably the only chance of finding anything out is asking Tim Sweeney or Epic on twitter, really; otherwise we just gamble on Skookum or Verse.

I totally understand.